RE: filmscanners: real value?

["Laurie Solomon" <laurie@advancenet.net>]

Mike, I have no reason to question or refute anything you have said.  I must
admit that I do not know all that much about Dye-Sub printers except what I
have read, heard and seen by way of sample prints.  Most of the information
and samples came not from Alps devices but from Kodak devices primarily.
That is why I prefaced my response with a disclaimer by saying the response
consisted of "partial possible answers."  :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-filmscanners@halftone.co.uk
[mailto:owner-filmscanners@halftone.co.uk]On Behalf Of Mike Kersenbrock
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 11:04 PM
To: filmscanners@halftone.co.uk
Subject: Re: filmscanners: real value?


Laurie Solomon wrote:
>
> Ian,
>
> Partial possible answers to your question are:
>
> >I wonder why there are so few people film scanning then printing with dye
> >sublimation printers?
>
> (1)  Dye sublimation printers may be too costly as compared to inkjet
> printers both to purchase and to operate given the cost of expendables.

Although perhaps true in the U.S. now that ALPS has stopped selling their
low-cost dye-sub printers here (I am still using mine), Oki is still
selling them in some countries (as an OEM product).  At least for mine,
the runtime costs are similar to a photo-inkjet (which my wife's
printer is one of).  Printer costed a bit
more than an inkjet, but that difference is not significant over the life
of the printer (where runtime costs dominate).  Price was about double
an inkjet's cost (which is to say, still not much).  I have an Alps MD-1300.


> (2)  Dye sublimation prints are even more fragile than inkjet prints in
> terms of longevity in the case of resistance to heat and water among other
> factors so I am told.

At least in terms of mine, the opposite is true.  One can crunch the print
up in a ball and flatten it out w/o problems to the image (other than for
obvious creases in the paper).  One can stick it under a faucet of running
water *immediately* after coming out of the printer.  It's completely
waterproof
and never had any liquid used in it's processing (the pigments were
sublimated, solid->gas->solid).  Longevity is supposed to be archival.
The Alps units, at least, are technically pigment-sublimation printers.  :-)


> (3)  Inkjets have reached the level where there quality and other features
> come very close to those, if not in some instances surpass those, of
> inkjets.

Perhaps some inkjets over some dye-subs.  Some dyesubs are only 200 dpi
or less, the alps prints at 600 dpi.  Note that each dot has a full range
of colors -- not like the three to six colors that inkjet dots have.

But indeed, some inkjets are very very good.  :-)  With Alps out of the
U.S. market, my next printer when the Alps breaks will undoubtedly have
to be an inkjet.


> (4)  There is more development going on in regard to inkjet and laser
> technologies than in dye sublimation technologies, which it appears -
> relatively speaking - has been orphaned, which makes people uncomfortable
in
> investing in a product that might be abandoned in the near future so as to
> make getting expendables difficult and expensive.

For business applications, lasers are probably the future with the speed
and volume needed in the printer -- plus cost per print.  My Alps
printer prints photos very well, but it is *SLOW*.  For me, I'll take
the slug slow printing (not that inkjets aren't slugs too) to have the
price low -- but a business would value it's time to make that unacceptable.

Alps quit selling in the U.S. (IMO) because it wasn't a business printer
(other than maybe light duty in small businesses) while simultaneously
they wouldn't/couldn't compete in the distribution-game having to sell
the printers at cost (or less) and making it up on the runtime materials.
Mass
home sales go to low initial price over quality.  :-(

>
> >B&W - I see no mention of this is any Dye sub printer literature
>
> (1) Expense of printers and expendables as noted above.
> (2) Difficulty getting good black and white tonal range using just the
black
> on the dye sub black dye ribbon and getting rich blacks when trying to
> obtain black from a mixture of the other color dyes.

A fellow who works for a local printer-making company I know was surprised
how good the blacks were on my Alps dye-sub because in dye-sub mode it is
a CMY+overcoat printer.  But I know that has been a problem for some
dyesubs (as well as inkjets that ran in CMY mode back when those were
still being made).  I'm kind of happily glad about how well blacks turn
out as well.  Odd way to do a dye-sub B&W, but it's how I do it, and it
works well.

If one is in the U.K., check out Oki's line of dysub printers,
the ALPS MD-5000 is probably "something"-5000, and in that one dye-sub
printing is an option.  There is a new semi-professional model coming
out soon that prints large pages (etc) that sounds quite interesting!
But it won't be available here in the states.  :-(

Mike K.