Re: filmscanners: Problems with LS40 and Nikon Scan 3

["John Bradbury" <bradbury@on.aibn.com>]

Hi Jawed,
I have a Nikon LS3 and using NikonScan 3 and Vuescan have very similar
problems to what you describe.
I shot allot of backlit subjects and interiors where a light source is in
the picture. For this Nikon scan wins. For studio shots where the lighting
is frontal I find Vuescan gives the best result.
Nikonscan and studio shots creates skin tones that are very orange. Vuescan
creates tones that are neutral.
Applying autolevels in PS has very little effect on a Nikonscan image but
considerable effect on a Vuescan image.
I've experimented with both to be able to automate the process but so far
without success.
The negative film I use is Kodak Portra 160nc.
When scanning slides Nikonscan reproduces the image more realistically
John Bradbury
----- Original Message -----
From: Jawed Ashraf <Jawed@cupidity.force9.co.uk>
To: <filmscanners@halftone.co.uk>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 4:58 PM
Subject: filmscanners: Problems with LS40 and Nikon Scan 3


> I am using version 3.1 of Nikon Scan with an LS40 and I'm trying to scan
> negatives, mostly Fuji Super G/HG and later versions, with some Kodak
Gold -
> all ISO 200.
>
> Overall I'd characterise the scan "problems" I'm having in two ways:
>
> 1. super-saturated - colour tends to be rather more saturated than I was
> expecting.  Odd colours just seem to "pop" out in a way that can be
> disconcerting.  Skin *always* seems to be too red/pink.
>
> 2. dark scans - using Photoshop, when I set the black point of the scanned
> image to register as RGB:0, 0, 0 (ish), using auto-levels, say, the
overall
> tone of the image becomes objectionably dark.  If I look at the histogram
> before applying auto-levels, it shows that the black point is at around
> 20-25.  I have to apply a gamma correction of roughly 1.3 to 1.7 to
produce
> something reasonable, once I've done auto-levels.  (PS produces really
awful
> results applying this gamma - it turns out that applying auto-levelled
black
> and gamma 1.3-1.7 in NS produces *vastly* superior results.)  It seems to
me
> that NS is failing to take account of the density of negative film (DMin I
> guess) when it performs a scan.
>
> All the settings in the Color Balance and Analog Gain palettes are set to
> neutral (0), so I'm not introducing any colour cast or brightness/contrast
> changes that way. I'm using the filmstrip motorised scanner gadget (i.e. I
> just push each naked filmstrip into the front of the scanner).  The image
> comes out with white borders along the long sides and black borders along
> the short sides (respectively: light blocked by scanner and the film mask)
> and I'm careful to exclude the white/black borders by performing a crop,
> ahead of doing any auto-levels.  I use Auto Exposure in the Preferences.
> Digital ICE is on the whole time  - I bought this scanner because I was
> going barmy eradicating scratches from images out of another scanner.
>
> I have NS Color Management System turned on and I have configured NS to
use
> the Adobe RGB 98 profile.  Photoshop is used to acquire via TWAIN and PS
has
> colour management on, set to a working space of Adobe RGB 1998.
>
> Questions:
>
> 1. How can I tame the colour within NS, for all my scans?  Is Fuji Super
G,
> say, known for being rather too saturated and twisty-turny in its colour?
> (I have similar "saturation" problems with a friend's Kodak Supra 800/400
> and Fuji NPH 400.)  If I turn down overall saturation (say -20) and change
> the hue (+10)  the image seems pretty good, though I have to play with
these
> depending on the film/scene.
>
> 2. how can I persuade NS not to leave a gap of 20ish where the shadow data
> should be filling in?  It seems to me that if I don't set the black point
on
> incoming scans, the images have a good overall tonality - but somewhat
milky
> in the shadow range.
>
> I bought Vuescan last night (I started getting really good results with
the
> demo version) and I'm using Vuescan as a kind of "reference".  I'm
> outputting files using the ProPhotoCD gamut and obviously retaining this
> gamut when loading into PS.
>
> Vuescan definitely doesn't produce skintones that make me want to puke -
but
> at the same time I feel it produces results that are a little flat
looking,
> both in contrast and in colour.  Often two colours in an NS image will
tend
> to "merge" in a VS scan.
>
> Vuescan has a seriously disappointing user-interface.  I often have real
> trouble getting a frame centred so that I can crop it properly.  There
seem
> to be 5 offset settings I can play with, but with some images I just can't
> get at the whole frame.
>
> So I have a mild preference for the images that I can get out of NS after
I
> use gamma/hue/saturation adjustments and a strong preference for NS's user
> interface - but I wonder if it is possible to configure something in NS to
> reduce the adjustments I have to make.
>
> The way NS only uses 20-255, and the impact on gamma it results-in when I
> set the black point, REALLY bothers me.
>
> Are others having these kinds of problems?
>
> Jawed
>
>