[filmscanners] Re: New Fuji Films

["" <golder@netzero.com>]

This is really good stuff!  Art and Frank, just please don't start tossing your 
walkers at each other.  (Art, for you, that includes any imaginary walkers, 
too!)

--- "Arthur Entlich" <artistic-1@shaw.ca> wrote:

OK Frank, as much as I'd rather not reply to this publicly for a number
of reasons, I will because of your arrogant and disrespectful tone.

The person who developed the foldable cataract replacement lens, and who
literally wrote the book on modern cataract surgery, which every
ophthalmologist must read, is a relative of mine.  I will gladly supply
the name and details in private mail is you wish, and you can then ask
your world famous eye doctor if he ever heard of him.

The information I related about loss of the blue color spectrum and the
reason behind many purple wearing elderly (I happen to live in the
largest retirement community in Canada, by the way) came from my
ophthalmologist and confirmed from other sources. My ophthalmologist,
BTW, has almost his full practice treating cataract patients now.  He
was also the person who told me of his own patients who had their
lens(es) replaced with untinted ones, who indeed told him they tossed
their clothes because they had no idea how purple the clothes they were
wearing were.  And no, he didn't suggest that he replaced people's
lenses twice, but that from years of feedback, and experience, he tended
to suggest some particularly elderly patients not get fully untinted
lenses, because it was simply too much of a change for them to acclimate
to, and especially when only one procedure is done, and a space of many
months or even years might ensue between the replacement of the second
lens.

So, Frank, why do you think elderly women go around with purple and blue
hair rinses? You think they suddenly decide one day, "hey, I think I'd
like my hair blue!" They choose the color from color sample charts.
They think it looks good by looking through their eyes, and hair
stylists have learned to give their clients what they wish or they will
have complaints.  Most people believe their color perception to be
"accurate" and if the hair stylist were to say, that color is blue or
purple, while the client saw it as neutral white or mildly blond, they
would lose a lot of customers.

Since many elderly people have mainly elderly acquaintances, who also
have similar yellowing of their lenses, everyone is happy.

If you did not notice a large color shift when you had your lenses
replaced, then it is likely your lenses were not that yellowed.  I don't
know how old you are.  Cataracts can develop earlier in people who have
lots of UV exposure, and this doesn't always yellow the lens severely
before clouding it.  I have seen human lenses from cataract removal, and
some are, besides being clouded nearly brown in tone.

Again, I am not about to discuss my experiences with altered states in a
public forum, because, unfortunately there are still too many people who
maintain prejudices, but my experience clinically (I worked as a drug
counselor in the early '70s) academically and recreationally, is
substantial.

There is no doubt in my mind that the psychedelic movement had
considerable impact on many people's perception of color, the use of
color in art and photography, and the "evolution of color". I would also
say that our exposure to color television, which most people tended to
crank up well beyond "natural" saturation (and still do), has "colored"
our pallet.  Color TV pretty much hit the mainstream about the same
decade as did mind expanding chemistry.

If you study the art of cultures that use psychedelics in their
religious or ceremonial traditions, you will find that they tend to use
much brighter colors in their artwork than cultures which used something
like alcohol as their main sacrament (which until recently was very much
our Judeo-Christian culture), or which abstained from use of
hallucinogens.  (You might want to read ethno-botanist Wade Davis (he's
Canadian), David Solomon, Aaronson/Osmond, Metzner, Grinspoon, Lilly and
of course, Leary).

When train travel first became a standard form of transit for the
masses, people used to develop nose bleeds, headaches, and other
symptoms because they were not used to the speed (these trains had a
peak speed of 18 miles per hour, BTW).  Humans, as a species and
culture, adapt to changes in our mode of movement, as well as our
perception.  Photography and graphic arts are changed by the influence
of sometimes just one individual in mass culture.  Just as Jackson
Polloch altered our thinking about modern art, so did Peter Max alter
out concept of color, line and contrast.

Kubrick, with the vision of Doug Turnbull changed our perception of
space, and the use of color and form in cinema forever with 2001: A
Space Odyssey.  Basically, OUR EXPECTATIONS of perception change, and
therefore, so do our perceptions themselves.

You can "dis" me all you like, but I know these things to be so, both
academically and personally.

Perhaps sometimes the reason you find another person's insights "funny",
is because those insight just fly right over your head.  And this time,
Frank, no apology, and no misinterpretation... I MEANT that to be
insulting.

Art

Frank Paris wrote:

>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: filmscanners_owner@halftone.co.uk
>>[mailto:filmscanners_owner@halftone.co.uk] On Behalf Of Arthur Entlich
>>Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 9:38 PM
>>To: frankparis@comcast.net
>>Subject: [filmscanners] Re: New Fuji Films
>>
>>
>>Personally, as much as I like punchy color in film (and I
>>do), I think we are deceiving ourselves in thinking that it
>>is "accurate" as a portrayal.  I honestly think this is a
>>remnant of the '60 and the "ahem", mind-altering substances
>>we used (as a group) which increased out serotonin levels and
>>made us think black light fluorescent colors were "natural".
>
>
> That is so off the wall.
>
>
>>I look at my Kodachromes and they used to seem to accurately
>>capture the colors of the "real" world.  Now I look at them
>>(and they have been dark stored and have not faded) and when
>>I compare them to current film stocks they look downright "drab".
>>
>>Even the new filmstocks often end up further color saturated
>>when they go to my computer and printer. Yes, I like those
>>colors a-popping, but I do also recognize that its because I
>>miss those good ol' acid days, not because that's how nature
>>looks.
>
>
> I'm LMAO here. So you dropped acid in the 60's, is that what you're
> saying? And you think it fried your brain? I think that proves you
> didn't drop acid and that you don't know what you're talking about.
>
>
>>Also, as we age, our lenses yellow and become less
>>able to pick up the blue range of the spectrum, so we tend to
>>select films that exaggerate these areas of the spectrum.
>
>
> I was hoping you would bring that up. I have colorless acrylic implants
> in both eyes because of cataract surgery. I see colors like a baby and
> was amazed and delighted when they removed the eye patches after the
> operations. The colors of nature ARE vivid. You just don't see them. I
> do.
>
>
>>You know those "older" people wearing purple clothes and blue
>>hair... they don't know it, in most cases.
>
>
> Keep it up. This is getting better and better.
>
>
>>They think they
>>are wearing earth tones, and neutral white gray hair.  The
>>blue is there to counteract the yellowing of their vision.
>>Just ask anyone who had cataract surgery and had uncolored
>>lenses installed rather than yellow ones.
>
>
> Well, that's me, and I haven't noticed that old people wear purple
> clothes. You're so full of it it is pathetic. As if old people dye their
> own hair and wouldn't have a stylist with okay eyesight do it like
> everyone else. You're living in some kind of fantasy world.
>
> The fact is, the organic lens in the eye yellow so slowly (starting
> about the age 19) that no one ever even notices. They forget that deep
> blues even exist and so don't gradually start looking for them in their
> sixties or whatever. It isn't just the blues that are lost, either. It's
> also the vivid reds. So all of you middle-aged photographers who have
> not benefitted from modern cataract surgery are only seeing a grayed
> down imitation of the real world. (Please let's not get into a
> philosophical discussion about what the "real world really is.")
>
>
>>They often end up
>>tossing half their wardrobe and changing their hair color.
>
>
> This is the most ridiculous stuff I've ever heard.
>
>
>>Many ophthalmologists won't even give elderly people clear
>>lenses during a cataract replacement because the person finds
>>it either too shocking or can't cope with the imbalance of
>>one eye to the other, if one is changed at a time.
>
>
> This is so ridiculous you've got to be making all this up. I know,
> because I had long conversations with my surgeon, world renowned among
> fellow ophthalmologists who did much of the original research, and he
> never mentioned anything like this to me. What I experienced was
> amazement, delight, and thanksgiving. The experience was anything but
> disturbing, and to this day I am STILL amazed by the vividness of the
> colors of nature that Velvia manages to capture for me. My doctor spoke
> of universal positive experiences after cataract surgery.
>
> Just think about what you're say here. "The person finds"??? What does
> this mean? The surgeon puts in clear lenses, is dismayed to discover the
> person freaking out from the vivid colors, so the surgeon puts the
> patient back on the operating table to insert yellow lenses to calm him
> down? Well as I am sure Miss Elizabeth Bennett would say once again,
> "I'm all astonishment."
>
>
>>Frank Paris wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: filmscanners_owner@halftone.co.uk
>>>>[mailto:filmscanners_owner@halftone.co.uk] On Behalf Of
>>
>>Arthur Entlich
>>
>>>>Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 11:27 AM
>>>>To: frankparis@comcast.net
>>>>Subject: [filmscanners] Re: New Fuji Films
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>So, from what you are saying I surmise, it records grays well, as
>>>>washed out as the real thing ;-), and then, as it brightens up, it
>>>>exaggerates the color and makes it radioactive ;-)  Sounds
>>>>"interesting"... Ahem.
>>>
>>>
>>>Actually, I would describe it this way. "I'm bringing back the
>>>memories." The colors of nature seem very vivid to me and Velvia is
>>>what I have discovered revives those memories better than
>>
>>other films.
>>
>>>On a gray day, Velvia 50 seemed to do it better than the new 100.
>>>However, the 100 images are definitely smoother.
>>>
>>>The expression, "sounds interesting" has no content so I
>>
>>have no idea
>>
>>>what you mean.
>>>
>>>Frank Paris
>>>frankparis@comcast.net
>
>
>
>



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