[filmscanners] Re: [filmscanners_Digest] filmscanners Digest for

["" <SDviewpnt@aol.com>]

Art,

This is not a question of the number of posts submitted, the length of time
someone has been a subscriber, nor a debate.  FYI, I've posted on occasion and
have been a subscriber for a long period of time (years) going back to the
days when digest recipients could not post, as I recall, as that was a 
limitation
of the server software.

You may laugh at anything that amuses you.  You are judgmental and in error
to dismiss my intention as disingenuous.  My comments were directed to Tony as
the owner of the list.  I also shared them with the group as a POV that I've
seen from others in this group over the years.  While I do not archive all the
posts from this list, I do know that there's been similar sentiment expressed
by others.  Some have left and some have not.  I will allow Tony to speak for
himself.  He was responsive to me on this subject... and, yes, I have his
address.

You're critically dismissive of my "lurking" and not initiating change in the
group by jumping in and addressing each member that I might take exception
with, yet when I've posted my comments to Tony, sharing them with the group,
it's also inappropriate in your opinion.

At other times and on other lists, those that condemn posters who are
critical of content, have offered the advice that the delete key is the best 
tool.  I
agree that it's a remedy that can work and use it as I'm sure others do.

Your reference to my intent to induce feelings of guilt, air my sour grapes
and play elitist games are unfortunate and off the mark.  Do not question my
honesty at any time, ever.  The quip about refraining from a comment about
Morgan owners and their cars is childish.  The subject matter of any list is not
the issue.  The tone and civility are.  Spirited debate and passion for a
position need not sink to the level of personal attack nor self righteousness.

The point has been to elevate the informational opportunities here for those
who have an interest in this subject matter.  It's powerful to have to the
availability to ask questions from users and receive a range of opinions so that
one can advance their level of understanding.  When the tone and style of that
dialog impedes that opportunity, it's too bad.  Too often, threads here have
disintegrated to the comic level of "Point/Counterpoint" from an old SNL skit
with Dan Aykroyd exclaiming, "Jane, you ignorant..."

There are many levels of participants in forums such as this.  There are
those dominating, aggressive individuals that must always be right and must 
always
get the last word.  There are those who contribute regularly and debate and
defend their positions and opinions with energy.  There are those individuals
that participate less, but still speak up now and then.  There will always be
individuals who lurk out of uncertainty, wondering if they have anything to
contribute and don't want to invite criticism or ridicule should they ask a
question deemed silly by those who seem expert.

Any group will live and die on the dynamics of it's participants and the way
in which they communicate the written word.  When the atmosphere is inviting,
stimulating and entertaining, it should grow.  Without, it won't.  I've reread
your point on the saturation of the filmscanner market and I agree that as
this has contributed in stunting the group discussion.  However, an atmosphere
that wasn't antagonistic might improve the level of participation and keep this
forum viable.

I will say that there has seemed to be a bit of courtesy exhibited in the
last day's worth of posts.  That would be a good thing, whether this group
continues or not.

Reactions, though, have been interesting.  I note some similar sentiment and,
of course, the predictable backlash.  Funny, I didn't single anyone out, nor
did I indict the group entirely.

Art, I answer you directly so that there's no question as to my intent.  I do
not look to debate this ad nauseum although discussion is, as always, a good
thing.  Accept or reject as you wish.  There's always the delete key...

Regards,
Steve Dreiseszun



>Topic: [filmscanners] Re: [filmscanners_Digest] filmscanners Digest for
>==================================================================
>Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 03:38:14 -0700
>From: Arthur Entlich <artistic-1@shaw.ca>
>
>I always have to laugh when these kind of postings show up.  Not because
>they are or are not valid, but because their intent is so disingenuous.
>
>Tony has a private email account, which anyone has access to if they
>wish to write Tony a personal comment about their view of the list.  In
>fact, I imagine it is a lot more effective to do so, since I don't even
>know if Tony has had the time of late to be actually monitoring every
>email going by.
>
>This type of public posting is the sour grapes kind.  If the person has
>a gripe with the list members, the honest thing would be to address the
>list members.  If he has a gripe with certain list members then he could
>do that as well, preferably in private mail.
>
>But what this posting is really about is to play elitist games (I could
>say something about Morgans as cars, and their owners, but I'll
>refrain).  A "Dear Tony" letter translates to "I'm writing the moderator
>and owner of this list to express my dissatisfaction with it and I want
>to make sure everyone else reads it and feels guilty".
>
>The truth is that there has not been a lot of activity in the film
>scanner market, and the market is probably saturated.  Anyone who wants
>one has probably bought it, and now people are moving to digital
>cameras.  Prices on film scanners have dropped, and very little new
>innovation has developed to cause any real excitement in the industry.
>Film scanners have become another commodity that certain people need.
>The software has matured to a great extent, and people have learned to
>pretty much make them do what they are needed to.  As a result, the
>minutia of the workflow gets discussed in an echolike fashion.
>
>In looking through my admittedly incomplete archives, and as memory
>serves, I do not recall the poster ever posting a public message before.
>  I don't know how long he has been on the list, but he certainly hasn't
>been an active participant in a long time, if ever.
>
>Whenever lurkers come out of the woodwork to complain about the content,
>or atmosphere of a list, I have only to say, why don't you participate
>and change the direction or content of the list?
>
>I may very much agree with the poster, or I may indeed be one of the
>people he is complaining about, but that really isn't the issue. This
>list is pretty much democratic.  Tony rarely intervenes, and like any
>other democracy, it works when people participate.  Complaining and
>walking home is only a valid method of protest after you have tried to
>make change by participation and still failed.
>
>Art
>
>

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